As regards the agreeable everyone acknowledges that his judgment, which he bases on a private feeling and by which he says that he likes some object, is by the same token confined to his own person. . . . It would be foolish if we disputed about such differences with the intention of censuring another's judgment as incorrect if it differs from ours, as if the two were opposed logically.
- Critique of Aesthetic Judgment, Immanuel Kant
If we look at commercial gay sexual representation, it appears that the antiracist movements have had little impact: the images of men and male beauty are still of white men and white male beauty. These are the standards against which we compare both ourselves and often our brothers - Asian, black, native and Latino. Although other people's rejection (or fetishization) of us according to the established racial hierarchies may be experienced as oppressive, we are not necessarily moved to scrutinize our own desire and its relationship to the hegemonic image of the white man.
- "Looking for My Penis: The Eroticized Asian in Gay Video Porn", Richard Fung
sorry but, NO ASIANS unless you are REALLY HOT
WM 35yo 5foot eight 170 and I LOVE DICK IN MY MOUTH
- "Skull Fuck Victim Takin Loads Tonight (san jose downtown)", author unknown. Available at http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/m4m/1635287989.html, retrieved 3/9/2010 8:04AM.
vers here and could possibly be open to flip flop if you're hot and muscular too. Sorry not into Asians and no PNP or drugs of any sort. neg for neg.
- "shorter built TOP ready to plow (the city (sf))", author unknown. Available at http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/m4m/1633679711.html, retrieved 3/9/2010 8:09AM.
Horny guy looking for regular HOT fun with Asians. . . . Be clean, safe and drug/disease free. Cute+++. Hairless+++
- "VGL White looking for HOT Asian guys - m4m - 28 (sunnyvale)", author unknown. Available at http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/m4m/1633305340.html, retrieved 3/9/2010 8:11AM.
Human fate still rides upon ancestry and appearance. The characteristics of our hair, complexion, and facial features still influence whether we are figuratively free or enslaved. Race dominates our personal lives. . . . In short, race mediates every aspect of our lives.
- "The Social Construction of Race: Some Observations on Illusion, Fabrication, and Choice", Ian Haney-Lopez.
Yes, it hurts when someone rejects you for your race -- just as it hurts to be rejected for your age, weight, gender, or dick size. But what can you do? Everyone has an absolute right to reject anyone for any reason at all, however unfair or arbitrary the reason may seem to the rejected party. We can't say, "That's not fair, you have to fuck me!" when someone tells us to buzz off because of our race, weight or gender. I assume you've rejected guys -- you can't be attracted to all men, correct? Well, your reasons for rejecting a particular guy may feel just as hurtful to him as "I'm not into Asians" feels to you.
- "Savage Love" February 2, 2001, Dan Savage
we can see that all groups think, theoretically, that interracial relationships are acceptable, yet again whites are the least willing to have such a relationship themselves
- "Same-Sex Data for Race vs. Reply Rates" okCupid trends blog, available at http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/same-sex-data-race-reply/ retrieved 3/9/2010 8:27AM
- Critique of Aesthetic Judgment, Immanuel Kant
If we look at commercial gay sexual representation, it appears that the antiracist movements have had little impact: the images of men and male beauty are still of white men and white male beauty. These are the standards against which we compare both ourselves and often our brothers - Asian, black, native and Latino. Although other people's rejection (or fetishization) of us according to the established racial hierarchies may be experienced as oppressive, we are not necessarily moved to scrutinize our own desire and its relationship to the hegemonic image of the white man.
- "Looking for My Penis: The Eroticized Asian in Gay Video Porn", Richard Fung
sorry but, NO ASIANS unless you are REALLY HOT
WM 35yo 5foot eight 170 and I LOVE DICK IN MY MOUTH
- "Skull Fuck Victim Takin Loads Tonight (san jose downtown)", author unknown. Available at http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/m4m/1635287989.html, retrieved 3/9/2010 8:04AM.
vers here and could possibly be open to flip flop if you're hot and muscular too. Sorry not into Asians and no PNP or drugs of any sort. neg for neg.
- "shorter built TOP ready to plow (the city (sf))", author unknown. Available at http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/m4m/1633679711.html, retrieved 3/9/2010 8:09AM.
Horny guy looking for regular HOT fun with Asians. . . . Be clean, safe and drug/disease free. Cute+++. Hairless+++
- "VGL White looking for HOT Asian guys - m4m - 28 (sunnyvale)", author unknown. Available at http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/m4m/1633305340.html, retrieved 3/9/2010 8:11AM.
Human fate still rides upon ancestry and appearance. The characteristics of our hair, complexion, and facial features still influence whether we are figuratively free or enslaved. Race dominates our personal lives. . . . In short, race mediates every aspect of our lives.
- "The Social Construction of Race: Some Observations on Illusion, Fabrication, and Choice", Ian Haney-Lopez.
Yes, it hurts when someone rejects you for your race -- just as it hurts to be rejected for your age, weight, gender, or dick size. But what can you do? Everyone has an absolute right to reject anyone for any reason at all, however unfair or arbitrary the reason may seem to the rejected party. We can't say, "That's not fair, you have to fuck me!" when someone tells us to buzz off because of our race, weight or gender. I assume you've rejected guys -- you can't be attracted to all men, correct? Well, your reasons for rejecting a particular guy may feel just as hurtful to him as "I'm not into Asians" feels to you.
- "Savage Love" February 2, 2001, Dan Savage
we can see that all groups think, theoretically, that interracial relationships are acceptable, yet again whites are the least willing to have such a relationship themselves
- "Same-Sex Data for Race vs. Reply Rates" okCupid trends blog, available at http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/same-sex-data-race-reply/ retrieved 3/9/2010 8:27AM
Q: What the hell is happening?
A: I've decided to do this post as a kind of Socratic dialogue/Montaigne-esque quote-fest. Sprinled with netizen neologisms like "Montaigne-esque" and "quote-fest"Q: Oh that's precious.
A: That's not a question, and also, shut up and let's keep this moving. It's seriously getting more precious by the minute.Q: Fine. Question one. Is this post really an excuse to tear into Dan Savage? And also, do you secretly find him DILF-y?
A: It's no secret, I think Dan Savage is a total DILF. As for my motivations, yes, I have wanted to revist this rant for ages. "Who the fucking fuck does Dan Savage think he is?" was my alternate title.Q: What's the problem?
A: Where to start?Q: Why don't we do a close reading? Stop cackling with glee, you dork. What's wrong with the first line of the quote from Savage: "Yes, it hurts when someone rejects you for your race -- just as it hurts to be rejected for your age, weight, gender, or dick size."?
A: Actually, that line isn't so bad. At least it acknowledges the pain of racism, though it then goes on to equate that pain with ageism, fatphobia, sexism (or maybe transphobia?) and oh yeah, that last one, dick size, IS ALSO ABOUT SEXISM. But it's okay because under a charitable reading, what that sentence is saying is "oppression hurts," and who would argue with that?Q: The second line... "But what can you do?"
A: Yeah. Thanks for the message of hopelessness, Dan. Like queer men of color don't get that message all the damn time already. "Oh, something racist happened? BUT WHAT CAN YOU DO?"Q: Then that next one, wow!
A: "Everyone has an absolute right to reject anyone for any reason at all, however unfair or arbitrary the reason may seem to the rejected party." Racism isn't an "arbitrary" reason. It is a systematic, pervasive oppression that functions both institutionally and through its effects on individuals' conscious and unconscious minds. Also, the "rights" language is thoroughly unhelpful when it comes to things like sex and dating. We have the "right" to say racist, hurtful things, but we also have the "right" to call people on that shit and hold them morally accountable.Q: What about "We can't say, "That's not fair, you have to fuck me!" when someone tells us to buzz off because of our race, weight or gender."
A: Actually, first of all, we can say that (though it's probably a losing strategy for getting to have sex with that particular person, it might bring its own satisfactions). Second of all, saying something like that is NOT the only alternative to remaining silent and swallowing your hurt.Dan's assumption here is that the injury is merely not getting to have sex. In fact, there is an added injury to being explicitly told "I am rejecting you because of your race." The fact is that, as Ian Haney-Lopez notes, race mediates every aspect of our lives. This is as true for white people as it is for people of color, it's just that for many white people, the way that racism operates is to make them completely unaware that this is the case (invisibility of privilege blah blah blah is it just me that is bored of explaining this to people?).
On the other hand, most people of color in the U.S. are reminded multiple times each day that our lives are mediated by race, and not to our advantage. For gay Asian men, one of the ways this hits us is through devaluation in the realm of sex. Gay Asian men are either seen as sexless and undesirable or as a fetish (and constantly sexually available), in either case, we are denied sexual agency (our own sexual desires are seen as unimportant or important only insofar as they are a complement to white men's sexual desires). Not only that, but the ideology that Dan Savage buys into demands silent complicity with this sorry state of affairs, almost as a precondition to being allowed into the gay male sexual community.
On the other hand, most people of color in the U.S. are reminded multiple times each day that our lives are mediated by race, and not to our advantage. For gay Asian men, one of the ways this hits us is through devaluation in the realm of sex. Gay Asian men are either seen as sexless and undesirable or as a fetish (and constantly sexually available), in either case, we are denied sexual agency (our own sexual desires are seen as unimportant or important only insofar as they are a complement to white men's sexual desires). Not only that, but the ideology that Dan Savage buys into demands silent complicity with this sorry state of affairs, almost as a precondition to being allowed into the gay male sexual community.
A: Nice minimizing again, Dan. Nice.
Q: Are you watching Special Victims Unit right now instead of finishing your thoughts on this subject?
A: Sadly yes.
Q: That show is sexist!
A: [watching SVU]
Posts
Your quote from the OKCupid stats entry was the least well-founded part of that article. Their evidence shows that all people, white people included, would like to date people with the most power and privilege. Folks who aren't white are more willing to have interracial relationships because that's the only way to have a relationship with the most privileged people.
ReplyDeleteThey claimed to have shown ways in which white women are the most racist evar, and I don't doubt that's possible, but they didn't actually show that.
Anonymous Coward:
ReplyDeleteYeah, but uh, the fact that white people are the ones who have the most power and privilege is a function of racism, so I don't really see how it contradicts or conflicts with ManOverBored's post - it reinforces it, in fact.
ManOverBored:
Love it, damn you SVU!!! One thing I get really tired of hearing, as a fat girl who is otherwise pretty privileged when it comes to this stuff, is that "We don't choose who we're attracted to." It really takes the onus off of people to examine their own bigotry and fears, since sexual orientation in the narrative is conceived as inborn, it seems that straights also have adopted that with regards to who they do/don't want to date or fuck. Which is absurd, obviously, nobody comes out of the womb not wanting to date black women or only being attracted to redheads. This stuff is created, and I'm tired of Dan and people like him not even acknowledging that in their dismissive and offensive comments on the subject.
Thanks for the comment, Anon! This prompts my close reading bonus round!
ReplyDeleteYour quote from the OKCupid stats entry was the least well-founded part of that article.
Thanks!
Their evidence shows that all people, white people included, would like to date people with the most power and privilege.
And by "people with the most power and privilege" you mean... white people.
Folks who aren't white are more willing to have interracial relationships because that's the only way to have a relationship with the most privileged people.
Which is to say, white people.
They claimed to have shown ways in which white women are the most racist evar, and I don't doubt that's possible, but they didn't actually show that.
Actually what the part that I quoted was trying to imply was that white people show the greatest disconnect between their stated values (being ok dating someone of a different race) and their actual practice (responding to people seeking dates who were of a different race), which is sad but not surprising. As you say, the reality is that in general, for white people, dating other white people means retaining the race privilege of social and familial approval (whether explicit or implicit, through the mechanism of not-commenting-on-the-race-of-you-and-your-partner) and, when it comes down to the line, that (invisible) privilege is hard to give up.